VICTOR
Everyone, welcome to the Healing Everyday Podcast. My name is Victor,
DEANNA
And I'm Deanna.
VICTOR
Hi, Deanna. How's everything going?
DEANNA
Great, actually, really good. Um, I've had some sciatic pain because if, like, if you've never listened and this is your first podcast with us, I am pregnant, which is super exciting and everything's going super good. Um, but my first pregnancy with my son, I had virtually no pain, no issues, even though he came early. Um, but I've had sciatic pain from like my back all the way down to my heel. It's been crazy. Uh, but other than that, it's been great. We, uh, I don't know if I said the last time because my memory is shot. We got my son's room ready and repainted and, and just, you know, the nesting thing. So it's, it's been going pretty good. My son turned six, and, you know, that was super emotional. Um, but yeah, that's kind of what's going on. We're also getting, you know, starting to get ready for school presentations. We're still a month out, but, you know, you and I get up at like between four and five in the morning, right? Pretty much, um, to make sure we're ready, commute, exercise, you know, I know you go to gym, get all this stuff done, so kind of swinging back into work mode almost. And, uh, you know, we're, we're winding down now, so how's everything with you?
VICTOR
Everything's good. Um, yeah. Uh, summer's flying by, which is unbelievable. Um, I, uh, I don't know, it, it's kind of cool. I have kids that are growing up, one that's in driver's Ed right now, so he's behind the wheel and he's doing great. And it's just, it's been a really good summer. Everything is, is going very, very well. Um, and, and for everyone that's just joining us, thank you so much for being with us today. Uh, this podcast means a lot to both Deanna and myself. We, we, uh, we we call it healing every day for all kinds of reasons, but today, um, this is interesting, but I don't even, I, I have an idea of what Deanna's gonna talk about, but, um, I'm just gonna be a listener too for part of this, and then I'll, I'll ask questions, but, um, it's exciting 'cause I, I'm kind of clueless, but not clueless. .
DEANNA
Yeah, it's, it's so funny. So, Victor and I, um, you know, we've had life happens. So this week, even though, you know, we've kind of been on the phone, he had to go out of town with his daughter, which was super exciting. And, uh, you know, uh, for, for colleges and stuff. And, you know, I, I trained with one of our newer presenters. So, so while we've kind of connected, we really haven't had a time to just get on the phone for 30 minutes and just kind of talk about what's been going on. So, two things have happened over the last couple of days. Uh, on Friday, I was invited to meet with the state's attorney, the one who actually prosecuted my dad. And, and I could talk all about that later on. Um, and it was really exciting to sit down and meet with them.
I, I was downright giddy, but, uh, what I really wanna talk about today is something that happened the next day. So, uh, I, I am very active on social media. You know, I somewhat active on Instagram. You know, I, I post a, a little bit less than I do maybe on TikTok, but I, I am very out there with what I post. Never, I, I don't think, never inappropriate or crossed the line, but I tell my story and I talk very openly about the work that we do. I, I am very passionate now, when I go to schools, and again, we present all over the country. I do, you know, there's a social media piece and we talk about, you know, safety online and we talk about, you know, think before you send and all these things. And, uh, I always get kids that ask, well, are you on social media?
And I say, yes, and I don't share my handles, but kids find me all the time. And so I've started saying this thing in presentations where please don't be offended if I don't, uh, you know, follow you back. Please don't be offended if I don't respond to private messages. Uh, you know, that's, that's, it's, even though I'm the safe, the safety lady, the Aaron's law lady, the be seen in her lady, the tic-tac, no-go lady, whatever it is, that would be super inappropriate for me to host private conversations or follow you back. 'cause I'm an adult and I'm in a position of power, not only as an adult, but as this presenter, this safety person, right? And kids sometimes like roll their eyes. We're like, oh my gosh, okay. We get it. Right. Well, I will, and I know I've talked about this before. I will get students that will message me and disclose to me.
And a lot of the time, I would say 99.9% of the time, it is from a blank account. No name, no description, just something as quick as, you know, I was abused and your story inspired me to talk about it. So nothing I can report, nothing I can do about it. Right? Um, I, I've tried and they're like, yeah, we, unless you have more information, you know, we're not gonna put our guys on it. Right? Well, I go to bed fairly early, early-ish, um, Friday nights at like 11 o'clock at night. I had a message, get into my message requests on Instagram, and I woke up the next morning, I don't know, seven o'clock, and I, I, I typically check all of my social media, all my messages, and I had a message request. So I click on it, and this, this person had their full government name.
They had their picture, they had a profile that was open and like tagged with locations. And, and again, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep this very, very basic, um, to protect this, this person. Um, but what it came down to is they shared with me. We have, I specifically had presented to them, they were going into high school, but I presented to them in middle school, and they had been receiving inappropriate graphic images from an adult on Snapchat. And that this person now was threatening them and saying, if you don't send things back, bad things will happen. And you better not block me. You better not delete me. And they had sent, they didn't send me any screenshots or anything from the actual messages, but they did send me that message along with the screenshot of this person's profile. And immediately, like, my blood runs cold, right?
And they said, I don't know what to do, but you were the first person I thought of. And so, as I've said all that, there's more to it, and I'm gonna get to it at a second, but, uh, to Vic, Victor, 'cause I don't wanna talk the whole time, you know, is, I guess what I wanna say is when we get a disclosure in any capacity, what is the first thought that you have when something like that happens? Whether it's in person, whether it's, um, you know, in an email, because we get people that reach out to us who disclose to us all the time, staff members, parents. What's the first thought or the feeling that you get when that happens
VICTOR
Immediately? I always, and I, we've had so many of 'em, but immediately, I, I just get, I get kind of numb for a second because it's, yeah, it's a, such a violation no matter what capacity it is. It's a, it's a violation of, of self. And I think of, I, I think of how brave this person is for reaching out. And I, that's what I kind of come back with. That's how I reciprocate what they say to me. I say, why you're so brave for saying this, but I immediately, I get, I get sad. And, and, and that's my immediate reaction. And then I think of, you know, when I was a kid and how I wish I could have had someone to go talk to, which I did have many people to go talk to, but because I didn't know it was okay to talk about it, I didn't. So I just think how brave they are and how I get, I get mad because I like, why would anyone wanna do this to a child? That's what I think about.
DEANNA
Absolutely. I think, like, like I said, my blood kind of runs cold. It's almost like that numb feeling. Yeah. Um, I do get angry. I get sad. I, I do think about myself because we're human and, and why wouldn't we reflect on our own experiences? And all of that happened within 30 seconds. And then my next feeling was, or my next thought rather, was what do I do? I know what I do. I know the next step, but when something like that comes in, right? Like, who do I go to first? So, um, this was in my message request. Now, if you don't know how message requests work, they don't know that you've seen the message unless you accept it. So you can read it, but it doesn't say red. Right? But the problem is, is that, you know, this, this person had attached a screenshot of their, the, the offender's profile.
And I couldn't see that offender's profile unless, uh, like they, they blur out the image unless you accept it. So I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? I wanna, I, I need to report this and I need to report this in multiple capacities. What do I do first? So I accepted the message request. Now, my thing is, I, again, I never host private conversations that is way above my pay grade. Uh, I wanna keep myself safe too in these situations and be appropriate. I don't exchange personal messages. I don't, I don't, I I'm not a counselor. I am not an investigator. I'm a reporter, right? But I accepted the message and I took screenshots. And the first thing I did was go to Snapchat and sent it all to Snapchat. And, and who knows what that's actually gonna do? It could do nothing, right?
But I was like, okay, immediately I'm gonna send it there. And then, and then after I sent it, I'm sitting there again thinking, this is not never gonna be enough. This is never gonna be enough. I don't feel like I've done due diligence here. So I called my local police department, I called the non-emergency, and they were so kind. And I said, I basically said, Hey, I am, uh, I'm gonna sound a little all over the place, but I think it's important, you know where I'm coming from so you can let me know what to do. I am a, uh, abuse preventionist. I teach kids about abuse in schools through Aaron's Law. Uh, and I received an electronic message request from a minor who shared that someone had been, uh, basically propositioning them through Snapchat. I go, I do have screenshots. I go, I just want, I know that I can't do nothing.
I go, so I'm asking you what is the next step? And she was so kind. And she was like, okay, the first step is I'm gonna send an officer out to your house. I'm gonna make sure that I share this with you. I'm like, okay, yes, send the officer out. And, and so what I did, because, you know, I have dogs and stuff, is I put my dogs in my back bedroom. So they weren't barking at the window the whole time. I took my son outside and we sat, basically, I opened up all the doors in the car. He was sitting in like the back hatch of it. I I have a big SS U v, and he, he basically played on his tablet while I kind of cleaned my car out, just waiting for the officer to arrive. The officer gets there, I show them the messages, I give them all this stuff.
And he, he's shared with me that he has three young daughters. And he's like, so, so explain to me what you do again, because we gotta keep in mind as much as this is our world and we understand the education and sharing this with kids, not everybody, even law enforcement, is even aware of what Aaron's law is and the work that we do. So I told him what we do with childhood victories and that we're basically all over the country, but predominantly in Chicagoland area. And he, he was like, so, like, just so, so inquisitive. And it was, it was, it was awesome to be able to, in a way kind of educate him. And he was very kind, very compassionate. He took all my information and then he went to leave because I was gonna email him everything. And he ended up coming back and he goes, Hey, I got a question.
You know, would you mind if I took pictures on my own phone just in case? He goes, this is, you know, just, just so I have it. And I was like, of course. Yeah. So he took pictures on my phone and he's like, let me ask you another question. Do you tell the kids what happens after they disclose? Like, do you, do you tell them like, oh, good, nothing will happen now. Or, oh good, no, no one's gonna talk to you about this. I go, no, we don't ever lie to them. I go, that would be such a breach of trust and dishonesty. It would, it would be so wrong for us to give these kids this hope that it's over now, because it's not, it's actually just beginning, right? So I told him, no, we, we do, you know, especially with middle school, because they ask, we let them know, yeah, we don't keep it a secret.
Um, we do have to report it to the proper people to get you help and to stop this. We, you know, validate that it's not their fault. They did nothing wrong. It's actually that shame and self blame that these abusers want you to feel so you don't come forward and that that's a part of their plan. And he goes, okay, so, so my question to you is, could this girl know that we are gonna, you know, come out? Because basically what they were gonna do is reach out to the local police department of, you know, where it happened. And I said, she doesn't know. I go, well, lemme ask you a question, sir. I don't ever respond to these messages. I go, I, I don't want this girl to be blindsided. Uh, I go, but I never make what we call a unilateral decision, right?
I always wanna make a decision where other people are involved. So there's more brains on it, more eyes on it, more people are aware. And if something goes haywire, we can say, okay, collectively as a team, how can we do better next time? So he goes, well, do you feel comfortable responding to her? I go, of course, if, if you are giving me the green light and you are going to be in this with me, and I can send you the screenshots and I can give you access to my Instagram if you need it. Yeah, I'll respond. And he goes, yeah, just, you know, kind of validate for her and if she can give us any other information, um, if you could get , if you can get her address. But I'm like, yeah, I'll try. And so I exchanged I think, four messages. I screenshot them all and sent them off to him.
But what this, this person shared with me was, I don't wanna get in trouble. I don't want my parents to be mad at me. I, and I go, I totally understand. I do. And I go, I go, what I did is I reported this to the proper people and, uh, that that's my job. And they had shared, you know, maybe, maybe after some time I'll talk to my parents about it, but I wanted to make sure that this person understood nothing's not gonna happen. So I said, if anyone does come to your house, you know, 'cause I know they're going to, if anyone does come to your house, okay, know that you did nothing wrong. You are not in trouble. And that their job is to help. So my encouragement to you is honesty is the best policy. That this is not on you. This is on the person who said and did these things, and they, they hearted my message.
And that was the end of it. If I get anything else again, I screenshot, I send it over to the officer who, who I have established the rapport with, right? And, and again, this is all these things that happened that I wanted to call you and tell you about, but, you know, life happens. And this just goes to show that even though I have never said to a kid, Hey, message me on social media. Hey, tell me about this. Because again, that is not, that's, that's not in my wheelhouse to, to, to go through all this, right? To to be like a, um, a personalized person through social media or anything. But that's gonna happen that if you are on social media, if you have an email out there, people are going to find it and they're going to reach out to you. So the question is, whatcha gonna do? Right? Well, we follow the proper channels. We follow the
VICTOR
Yeah. There's so many things to add to this. , you said a lot of great things, but, uh, kudos and, and a shout out to the police department, uh, for, I think handling it extremely professional. I mean, I was thinking about when I was a kid, and I, you know, that was a long time ago. They did not handle it well at all because nobody knew about it. And it's all about educating and, and all that. And of course, they're being trained now because I'm assuming they get a ton of online things that are happening. Um, oh, for sure. So, so I think that was really great. And the fact that the police officer took it an extra step to say, Hey, are you gonna reach out to this, to this girl? And you're like, well, I don't typically reach out, which makes perfect sense.
But I love that he gave you the green light. It reminded me of, uh, when a, a, a girl, uh, sent me an email. Uh, we were at a school and she said, uh, Victor, thank you for being my trusted hero. Um, I have to go tell my parents now that I've been abused. And again, same thing. It's digital, right? And I immediately, um, I, I didn't report it to the police. I reported it to the district, and I actually forwarded the email onto the district and said, Hey, with your permission, I would like to respond to this girl because she deserves to hear from me. She had the courage to reach out. I, she deserves from me a response. Are you okay with it? They said, yes. And I just said, basically, you're very courageous. It wasn't your fault, blah, blah, blah. But what's interesting about this person, um, um, I think you said, she said that she does doesn't wanna get in trouble from her parents. So there's a lot of layers here. So you got the, the fact that this person is doing this inappropriate thing with her threatening her, but also she doesn't want to maybe get caught that she's been on social media like this. Is that kind of what it's
DEANNA
Right. That's, that's kind of the why by God. Yeah.
VICTOR
Yeah. So it's like you saying how perfect you saying it, it's not your fault. Now, the idea of her being on social media, maybe when she's not supposed to, that's something between her parents and her, right? Because every
DEANNA
Correct. And, and there's a learning opportunity there for sure. I don't want, I'm, I personally like don't want my kid on social media until they're like, well into high school. And, and if I could, I always say, if you could push it off as long as you can do it, and I have that luxury of having young children Right. And being educated on that before my kid got onto social media. Right.
VICTOR
Right. Did you, did you say this, this girl's in middle school or high school?
DEANNA
She's in high school now. Um, but, you know, in, in the area, and you and I can talk, you know, off the record about this. So I mean, I can tell you, um, it is in a school district where we present, um, in elementary and middle, not high
VICTOR
School. Okay, fine. But my point is, it's like, um, she, you know, has to deal the fact that, okay, I'm assuming, or maybe not, that she shared with you, did she not think that it wasn't gonna get, you know, you were just gonna be like, oh my gosh, thank you for sharing and I hope everything goes well. I mean, she,
DEANNA
She had said, um, that she, she was, she didn't want to really talk to anybody. She was hoping she could keep it anonymous. And I said, and I totally get that. Um, but that, that's when I said, again, you know, just keep in mind, this isn't your fault. And, and I kind of, again, I did not lie and by any means, but I did, I did wanna just say, well, you can't be anonymous. Well, you, their police are gonna come talk to you. I just kept it very, very, very basic and very vague that, you know, yes, someone will probably come and talk to you, but they're coming there as a safe person, not someone coming to get you. Um, because yeah, I think, I, I think that, um, kids, and this is a kid, even, even even an older kid, it's still a kid.
Uh, you know, that they, they don't necessarily understand the way the law works. Right. And that disclosures from a minor are, are cannot be anonymous. Now, it is, if, let's say this went into a court process and there was a trial and this, this person had to testify, all of their information is redacted because they're a minor. Even my own, like I testified as an adult of child sexual abuse, right. However, all of my information was redacted in the court files. Like I, when I, when I read through the transcripts, I had to piece together who was, where , because they redacted it. Because even though I'm an adult now, I was a minor when it occurred. And that's things that, you know, an advocate, if it ever went to the court process, would explain to a child, you know, all of you know, one's gonna know your name, know, you know, all of that stuff. And it's, again, yeah, it makes sense that they were hoping just for validation and to not anonymously report it, but really, it's kind of like an adult privilege that they get to be anonymous, you know? Right.
VICTOR
Well, at the end of the day, this is all about keeping this child safe. Yeah. Period. And, and again, if, if, if the worst thing that happens out of this is the parents now are aware of what she was doing. You said it, it's a learning process. In the long run, this child will be, will be okay in the long run, uh, you know, middle school, high school, whatever. I feel, I mean, I'm not talking about the, the, the trauma that she's experiencing is one thing, but the, the relationship with the parent, like, okay, I I, I shouldn't have been on the social media or whatever. I'll learn from it and move on. This is about keeping kids safe. Mm-hmm. , um, ultimately, and I, I think what, what a great, this, what's so great about this work and other people that do this kind of work is the fact that you're opening up an opportunity for kids to feel safe with you. Feel safe with me to say, Hey, I can talk you. This has happened. And, um, I, I, I think it's great because again, I've learned that a lot of the older kids, middle school, high school, I call 'em kids, high school students,
DEANNA
They're kids
VICTOR
. They're gonna not go to their family. They're not gonna go to their core trusted heroes necessarily, because we have helped 'em understand that there are more than just your core. If you go to your core family, that's great, but if you're not feeling comfortable with that for whatever reason, it's not that you don't wanna share, it's just that you're not feeling comfortable at that moment. You have neutral. You have other people that you can go to. And this person reached out, reached out to you, which this is what I wanted to say. 'cause you did mention to me about what the idea of what today was gonna be about. You know, social media gets such a bad rap. This is a situation where it is so amazing.
DEANNA
Right? Right. And, and that's another thing like parents, um, being a parent myself, yes, social media is scary, and to push it off as long as possible is fantastic. But social media is very much so a part of our lives until there is an end of days, and there is no world as we know it, social media is gonna be here, it's gonna be around. And knowing how to be safe is important and knowing when to tell. And let's also keep in mind, Victor, that social media does get a bad rap. And there are horrific things that can happen. Not just this, but online solicitation, right? Child sexual abuse material. There are parents out there, Victor, who actually sell images of their young children and it, and through social media, or like, they'll have a wishlist and, and grown men will buy clothing for children.
And then these parents who run these big Instagram accounts will send pictures of children wearing those clothes. It's horrific. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go follow mom.uncharted on TikTok, just all about online safety and protecting your kids, right? With all that being said, as horrific as social media is, if if social media wasn't here, it would just be one less tool in an abuser's arsenal. There was so much abuse before social media still. Right? So while I agree that, you know, saying like, oh, maybe she shouldn't have been on social media. Well, maybe it's not that she shouldn't have been on it. Maybe, you know, um, being more, being more educated and aware of as soon as something like this came in, you don't have to host that conversation. Or as so many of us girls are taught to just be nice and to just be, be accepting of these compliments that these people pay us.
It's, it's, it's grooming. It's, it's feeling like a special, and then the big thing happens and we feel trapped, right? So I think it's a part of a much bigger conversation. And, you know, I'm, I, I handed my business cards to the police officer and I said, you know, I'm, I'm happy to be of any help that I can be in my capacity. You know, uh, let's, let's say parents reached out to me, right? Uh, and, and, and wanted to know more, or, or we're curious. You know, I'd be happy to offer education and support and things like that. 'cause that's a part of our job. And I, I am so passionate about what we do because I, I think I've talked about this before. When I first came out as a survivor, I craved seeing other survivors speak publicly, and I would send them messages.
And I very rarely ever got a response, but I just wanted them to know, you inspire me. You do so much for me, and I wanna pay it forward now and do the same thing for other people. You know, it's, it was very emo and that all happened before 8:00 AM on, on, uh, Saturday. And it was a, it was a very, very, uh, I don't even know the right word for it. It was a very surprisingly optimistic experience with, with law enforcement, with just feeling confident that I knew what I was doing and that this, this kid, if, even if it doesn't go through a whole court process, at least they don't feel alone anymore.
VICTOR
Yeah. And they can get the help that they needed if it's as simple as having open conversations now with their, with their parents. Uh, it's, it's about learning it's lessons. That's what life is about. It's about learning life lessons. And maybe she'll become more, you know, educated on what is appropriate online and, and all that. And, and you help somebody, which I think is, is very, very powerful. And it helps you as an individual, right? Part of our healing journey is to help others, and it makes us feel good. And it's, it's just what life is really about. I, I, I feel so, I think that's great. Thank you for sharing.
DEANNA
Absolutely. One more thing I wanna say before we wrap up here is, uh, I always remind kids when I present, but I'm al I'm gonna mention this for any adults here too. What you send through social media, through apps, even if you delete it, even if you erase your account, even if you throw your phone away, it lives forever. In the data forever. It's there. When I went out to California, one of our contacts told us about a minor who had been solicited online by an adult. It was all through Snapchat, and it all disappeared, right? It all expired and it was all gone. But when they went to trial, the, you know, I don't know what they call it, out in California, the state's attorney, the prosecution brought in every message, every video, everything on Snapchat from the last two years. Wow. Everything. And, you know, abusers and, and these, these people who, who want this power and control, they feel so powerful thinking, oh, well it's not gonna be here forever.
It's gone. No, it is there for, and that goes for bullying, that goes for threats, harassment. It goes for, you know, any of this. When you agree to terms and conditions, you are also agreeing that that stuff's gonna live forever. Right. You know, so this, you know, this child also was afraid, like, um, but it's all on Snapchat. It's gone. It's not gone, not gone. They police with, with the proper channels, can access anything they want. Internet, search histories, it doesn't matter. There is an IP address, it is all tagged to your location, the timestamp, all of it. So just keep that in mind, and especially when we're teaching our kids about social media safety and what we're doing, you know, in that moment, we may not think of the long-term consequences. Well, that's something that we need to do. It's, it's absolutely something that we have to teach because in this day and age, again, until, until the world has changed as we know it, it's gonna live forever.
VICTOR
Right. Wow. Great message today. I think that I learned a lot today. So, and what's the, what's the word you used for your testimony was what? Red, what redacted, what'd you say?
DEANNA
Oh, uh, like, um, redacted.
VICTOR
Redacted. Yeah.
DEANNA
Redacted. Yeah. Well, it means they, like, they, they cover it. They take it out. They, they redacted. They literally, um, it took them like over a month to get us the, 'cause you, in order to get transcripts in Illinois, you actually have to pay just for the paper and the work, right. So for 2000 pages of transcripts, it costs somewhere between four and $500 because we were paying for the paper, but also the work that the clerk had to do to sit there and 2000 pages worth Victor, they had to black out mine and my sister's name. Wow. By hand. By hand. And sometimes you can hold it up to the light and almost kind of see it, but like, I knew what was what, right. But any lay person who decides, oh, I'm gonna buy the transcripts, don't do that. I'll send you a copy . Um, you know, it, it takes a long time to do that. And, and rightly so. Right. They even redacted my siblings names when they testified for my dad, because they were minors when this all occurred as well. And I, I agree with that a hundred percent. So yeah, we all learned something new.
VICTOR
Great word. Alright, with that being said, uh, everyone please, uh, share this, uh, podcast with your family and friends and, and, and, and catch the message and continue healing every day. All this great stuff. So thank you everyone. Uh, remember as always, be present, be playful, and be powerful.
DEANNA
Be happy. Be healthy and be safe.
VICTOR
Bye.
